Tuesday, March 11, 2008

One Hand Slapping...


Julie, over at "One Hand Clapping" hosted a rousing and enlightening discussion - ostensibly about John Piper's recent comments about the importance of doctrinal consistency in teaching at a church or seminary. He had, apparently, the unmitigated gall to suggest - as a Reformed pastor - the following (and be prepared for a SHOCK):

"Here’s my rule of thumb: the more responsible a person is to shape the thoughts of others about God, the less Arminianism should be tolerated. Therefore church members should not be excommunicated for this view but elders and pastors and seminary and college teachers should be expected to hold the more fully biblical view of grace.

Do you separate from a denomination that allows pastors and seminary teachers to believe and teach this error? You can. We do. Oh, how we need discernment concerning how helpful you might be to the cause of Christ and his truth."

By John Piper. © Desiring God. Website: desiringGod.org

Hard to believe, isn't it? What an "arrogant" thing to say! Who does he think he is?

Can you believe the temerity of a Calvinist having a hard time with Arminian theology being taught? Arminians would NEVER object to Calvinism being taught, would they? (By the way, I HATE the labels... and I don't see "Calvinism" starting with Calvin: It was Augustinianism before Calvin, Pauline before Augustine and Biblical before that. Blame Jesus for having the nerve to put that doctrine in His Bible!) Well, we certainly wouldn't want consistency in thinking or conviction in belief - the most important thing isn't a passionate pursuit of the Truth, because apparently that's not knowable (or not thinking it is isn't "humble").

We need "humility" in our beliefs - I'm right, but you're right too. That's the ticket. Where is Mr. Rogers when we need him? Sing along, kids!
I think you're a special person
And I like your ins and outsides.
Everbody's fancy.
Everybody's fine.
Your body's fancy and so is mine.

Anyway, check out the enlightening, profitable discussion that ensued with the "emerging church" folks on Julie's blog - I think it's a great commentary on "emerging church" thinking - and priorities. Note that Northern Illinois has its own "cussing pastor" too!

And feel free to let me know what you think. In my view, it's so sad. And I'm wondering when the adults are going to show up and start asking some legitimate questions about what is going on in the name of "church" these days.

This leads very nicely into my next series - If I can ever get time to start it! Stay tuned.


Elaina said...


I don't think you're not welcome at Julie's blog. Perhaps, her comments were more directed at Stephen, and the two of you, holding similar positions, were conflated. Whatever. I think your current post on this site is a bit over-the-top, but I think that you and I, at least, were able to have a civil conversation on Julie's blog.


Anonymous said...

Wes, I ventured into that buddhist blog that you referenced. The site is a left wing rant. I think it might've damaged my server...

"No country will ever destroy the earth like the US"

The irony of the author taking offense at Piper's assertion, when her own writings are so full of her own self-congratulatory snobbery...

"The joys of appealing to the lowest common cultural denominator"

What an elitist. What a maroon!

Why waste your time? The arbiters of tolerance over there have about as much interest in your thoughts as the communists over at the Nation have in mine.

Yours in truth, justice, and the American Way,


jazzycat said...

I have had debates with her emergent pastor husband who denies penal substitution among other things. He is a left wing political activist..........

mark pierson said...


The way you conducted yourself over there is commendable. Kinda makes me glad that you are on the Blue Collar team!

mark pierson said...

Where's Wes?!